Zoro96

The fact that they cannot prevent or even put up a challenge against either of our adversaries if those two decides to mount some sort of aerial attack. Also why are you bringing up 'recently'? BAF hasn't had the capability to be able to put up any challenge or prevent intrusions by any of our adversaries for more than a decade now. About the bolded part, unarmed choppers straying (or intentionally entering) a bit into our territory during peacetime is not a threat. Any chopper, armed or unarmed, can be shot down easily with MANPAD or even concentrated fire from the ground. However the fact remains that BAF can't do much against some two bit country's air force if they decide to mount a concerted attack on us (sporting with more than 30 MiG-29, F-7, a bunch of rickety old Q-5 and now FC-1/JF-17 armed with PL-12/SD-10). As for ADIZ, it was only put into place because they couldn't detect all the intrusions through the South Eastern border back in 2016/2017. These incidents only became known because of eyewitnesses on the ground who were close to the border during the intrusions. More than three years after those incidents, there is still gaps in radar coverage of the country. Instead of waiting for an incident and reacting to it by setting up an ADIZ, it should have been done proactively before the incidents occurred. But I suppose it's better late than never. 24 Yak-130 was slated to cost $800 million, so $33.333 million a piece. Even at this price, the 16 we finally purchased would've cost $533.328 million. But reduced number of Yak's, from 24 to 16, should have increased the per unit price and as I recall the news from some years ago were quoting almost (or just tad over) $600 million. So where exactly are you getting this $400 million from? If the price did indeed drastically reduce by more than 30% (from $600 to $400 million) and I somehow missed that news, please feel free to post a link to some reliable source. Thank you. Given the track record of the former USSR, our Western enemy who depends on their weapon and continuously trying to push us into the Russkies current weapons ecosystem so that we are dependent on our enemy and their primary weapons supplier (on whom this enemy can exercise a great deal of influence against us), any major purchases/platform acquisition from this source is a big effin NO! In 1975 USSR stopped supplying us with spares grounding our MiG's and mothballing lots of other weapons. Ever wonder why we have so much Chinese weapons system, especially major items, in our inventory? Because of the 1975 incident reforms were put into place to completely wean ourselves off of Soviet weapons and switch to the Chinese. After decades of painstaking hard work, today you can observe the success of this policy by walking into any BA, BAF or BN base and taking a gander at their current weapons systems they own and operate. In 1999 this same Western enemy through bribing officials, got us into that MiG-29 fiasco. Because they were operating those, they thought they could make us dependent on them for training, spare and maintenance. What a colossal waste of money and resources that ended up being for us and still continues to be to this very day. These relentless mofos are still at it, just recently news surfaced of HAL wanting to service/maintain and sell spares for the MiG's. Then these fuxxurs weaseled themselves into Rooppur NPP project because that was handed to their but buddy the Russkies. And who knows what kind of shenanigans they're up to. I guess we'll only find out when that thing blows up killing millions and making an entire region of the country uninhabitable. So give this long sordid affair, MRCA debacle has to be seen in the proper historical context and not as some one off, isolated incident. As if all this wasn't enough, recent visit of a Reliance delegation to BD to push (read bribe) for the Rafale to be selected for our MRCA program is frankly quite unsettling. It's not because they tried that (yeah well, HTF were they even allowed in Dhaka or the AF HQ?), but the fact that BAF actually put a team together and then sent them to France to negotiate for this aircraft. If some people compromises our national security to help out our biggest enemy, by selecting Rafale, some heads will definitely roll, even if not now, but surely down the road. No one should forget how BAF and DGFI intelligence hounded the AF Chief, responsible for that Sheet-29 fiasco, on the streets of BD because they suspected bribery and enemy influence in the decision making process. An d just who's going to do that upgrade? The Russkies? Just why are they going to do that since we're not buying any of their crepware and they wont make any money from us? So after wasting more than half a billion of tax payers money on these Yak-130's, they still need even more AJT? And you wonder why BD's call BAF incompetent? So after blowing more than half a billion dollars of taxpayer money on these AJT, they decided to use them for CAS (Close Air Support)/ground attack? If they need CAS/attack aircraft maybe get some Brazillian Super Tucano's, as they cost less than $10 million and only cost a little over $400 (yup, you read that right, just a little over four hundred dollars) to operate. And then everyone gets their panties in a bunch when they hear others calling BAF incompetent.

Hence the flak they get from everyone for incompetence. They wasted some 500-600 million dollars on that alone! Even though the Yak-130 is closely related to transitioning trainee pilots to Russian SU/MiG series aircraft's, they can still be used to train pilots for other 4+ generation aircraft's, just that you have to spend a lot of time transitioning them into the EFT's. The Yak-130s were unnecessary and a complete waste of time and money. They could've just bought an additional 20-30 JL-8W's and do exactly the same thing that has to be done now when transitioning trainee pilots from Yak-130 to any NATO aircraft, but with a lot less money and also wasting of time.

You mean other than to completely leave our airspace undefended (against enemies with increasing ability to attack us from the air), hence utterly failing in their primary (and the single most important) task? Which is all good, and all of us applaud them for those achievements. But these will not cover for the humongous incompetence they've shown in other areas. Please read my first statement in this post again. You answered your own question, the bolded part; just read the underlined part.

Sorry if I came off that way, was not my intention. But you're just not willing a concept, because it contradicts your preconceived ideas. If a navy needs an aircraft to fly off of it's aircraft carrier, LPD, assault ship or a naval base, to strike at an adversaries naval (or air) assets located in a sea/ocean, then that means operating fixed wing or even rotary wing aircrafts, is in their domain. So simply put, if a navy has the requirement to operate such an aircraft, then it is in their domain. We don't have to be the US, China, UK, France or Japan to study and learn from their force structure and operating procedures. But you're the one mentioned the name of these three countries to me, as an example of some great air forces! Here let me remind you to what you wrote before: Thank you for putting in the effort to try and substantiate your earlier statement. I still greatly doubt that news, simple because, the $1 Billion credit isn't just for BAF, but also BA and BN. But itself used up more than half that amount just get those Yak-130 AJT. Once again, I'm sorry if I have come across as adversarial. That was not my intention. Absolutely, there's nothing with having disagreements; the thing about exchanging views on this (or any other) forum is not just to argue just for the sake of arguments, but also to learn from each other. Thank you.

I think 2 full sqdn. of EuroFighter Typhoons for BAF and 8 EFT's for BN by 2025, so about 5 years, is doable. That is if we we go on a war footing and seriously start arming ourselves. it could be like this: st year = 16 for BAF (or +4 for BN too) nd year = 8 for BN (or only 4 if we get the 4 extra ones for BN the previous year) rd year = 8 more for BAF th year = 8 more for BAF A 5 year plan would give ample time to train pilots and ground maintenance crew, build maintenance facilities in country, ramp up spare parts and weapons inventory. This would allow for BAF (also BN's air arm) operating budget to increase over half a decade to be able to absorb the new inventory. Later, after 2025, we could try to add more to BAF if/when funds become available; while we can try to add 8 more to complete BN's naval strike sqdn. Also, by new I mean used EFT's Trench ones upgraded to at least the latest Trench 2. The 8 going to BN should get whatever upgrade and weapons necessary for them to carry out their missions on BoB. I explained most of these in several posts in 'Bangladesh defence budget and your expecations'. Bolded part, I'm not sure that is entirely accurate. As they seem to be able to circumvent whatever restrictions that's put on them and continue to grow inventory, and the only thing standing in their ability to add to their capability is their own incompetence. NATO countries doesn't seem to have placed full on sanctions on the Tatmadaw. For an example, they bought 2 x ATR-42 aircraft, but had them upgraded with electronics suites and radars to turn them into full-fledged MPA. And then there is the LPD from RoK. China and Russia are also supplying them with whatever they want/can afford. Oh, I almost forgot the uncivilized people from the West supplying them with light torpedo's and sonars. For the second bolded statement, I agree with everything except the part where you mention 3 different model of aircraft. Maybe we can stick with just one model, EFT, for both BAF and BN. This will not only reduce procurement costs, but also greatly reduce maintenance cost and complexity too. BAF does need a single engined aircraft that's cheaper to operate (possibly maintenance too), but I'm not sure we can add 2 sqdn. before 2025 as we will have our hands full trying to induct 40 or so EFT's. Heck I'm not sure we could even afford a single sqdn. of the light aircraft during the EFT procurement. Let me also openly air my apprehension about acquiring both types of aircraft from NATO countries. Although J-10C has very many unanswered questions regarding it's ability to integrate with EFT, able to use our data link, IFF and whatever SAM or AWACS we get. Questions like how reliable will China be if we used these on their little pet to our East? What about if we used them on our enemy to the West, would China still supply spares and replinish our weapons stores? Another is that J-10C is in the medium weight category, so basically like EFT but with a single engine. If we could operate 60 or so EFT's with another 50 to 60 single engine (J-10C or whatever) aircraft, we can literally wipe the floor with the unciviled nation to our West. Bummers won't even be a a blip on our radars. I really like your last last suggestion, as I myself have mentioned this in a few post. A comprehensive plan for all three branches up until 2025. The goal should be fixed on Arakan and solving the Rohinga issue permanently, as I mentioned here: As I already replied to @Alim above, I'm not sure how much of that is true. Last line, try saying BAF and incompetence all in one sentence. But I do hope it can be turned around, by changing the culture at BAF, as alluded to by @Alim in one of earlier post. Uncivilized enemy to the West is an existencial threat to us. While we were fighting an occupying army and trying achieve our independence, they were arming the terrorist Sheikh Mujib Bahini and sending it into BD to attack Muktijoddhas and civilians, killing many. Soon after December 16th, 1971 they started arming the illegal Bummer terrorists in CHT and also destabilizing rest of the country. In 1994 BD forex reserves soared to more than 4 billion while these idiots forex reserve dwindled to less than a billion; setting off a chain of events, instigated by the enemy to the West, to destabilize BD which finally ended in 1996. Again they re-started their activities on the same day in 2001, even before election results were declared. They whined like a tranny hooker to the US and NATO countries until the latter green lit the formers terrorist plans to destabilize the country and carried out throughout 2001-2006 (in 2002/2003 while visiting US Consulate/cultural center in Kolkata, deputy/assistant level State Department official & head of S. Asia affairs agreed to their machinations and terrorist plans. A few days later US State Dept. tried to walkback the statement from Kolkata by claiming they have independent foreign policy towards BD, and only because of a massive backlash in our media). Terrorist bombongs in 63 of the 64 districts and a fake suicide bombing (handler most likely died while transporting/placing the explosive and it accidentally detonated). The fake assination attempt with an Arges-84 grenade (lol never heard of anyone trying to assinate an individual with a hand granade in the middle of a large crowd; not to mention apparently the assasins used their own standard military issue granade so it could be 'oh so easily' linked back to them!). Creating HUJI and JMB; recruiting, training, arming, funding and supporting their nefarious activities to destabilise us. Their continual funding, arming and supporting of a section of people within BD, the logi-botha terrorists, to setup a subserviant govt here (so that they can control our foreign and defense policy, not to mention loot the whole country), and started in October 2006, is still ongoing (we, the common citizens of this country, haven't decided to put a stop to it yet, unfortunately). The uncivilized enemy to the East is a pissant irritant most of the time, but if we curb stomp them just once, they will behave properly for the next century or even two. That's what happened the last time when we sent an army to Arakan in 1429; all was quiet on that front for more than two centuries afterwards. Because of events starting in 1824 and finally ending in 1885, they were a good subservient bunch for more than a century. So now it is time once again, to remind them, that messing with us is not an option for them.

That you have, but I'm glad that you've finally understood what I was trying to convey. No, no. Not at all. I was a little confused as to why you didn't understand what I clearly mentioned, and especially after the second post where I went into great lengths to explain it. But it's all good, now that you get it. You really should educate the navies of US, China, UK, France, Japan and many other countries as they allow them to operate aircraft. Clearly, they don't understand how to operate and I'm sure you'll be a great help in setting them straight. Utter nonsense and hearsay. You're just making stuff up for arguments sake here. I'd specially like for you to provide some credible sources we can read up on to verify the bold part. I'm sure 8 MiG-29SMT should be cheaper than buying 16 all new Yak-130 (which would've required new pilots and ground crew to be trained, repair and maintenance facilities to be built and stores of spares and weapons to be bought), because we already operate 8 MiG-29. Rohinga issue has affected all the other branches too, not just BAF. This issue has even changed our strategic outlook and we had to change our calculation; but again, all this has affected the other service branches too, and not just BAF. Their incompetence is entirely theirs, they or you can't blame that on anyone else. LOL! First one can't even defeat a paramilitary group called Hezbollah. The second one hasn't fought a single damn war; all Malaysia has to do is cut off their fresh water and power supply, and that little island will go all belly up in days. Let's not even bring up what Indonesia could do to them. As for the last one, they have not won a single war in the last 200-300 years; for all their advanced weaponry, high-tech economy and large military/national budget, they still can't fight a country which has only a $1,400 dollar per capita GDP, without hand holding from the US. But they already started a SAR squadron, albeit with only a few helis; just give it more time and I'm sure they they'll complete the squadron, maybe in batches of 2-3 at a time. Well I'm as surprised by MH-60 news, as I was hoping for the AW-159's to be inducted this year. As for the bold part, maybe these are for the new frigate program; at 4000+ tons per frigate, they should be large enough to handle the MH-60. But most importantly, whether BN chooses AW-159 or MH-60, as long as our frigates get good and reliable ASW capable choppers, I'd be happy.

Oh I dunno, maybe their performance over the last 10 or 15 years? Yeah in the army; it'd in the wrong place in an airforce. Yeah in the airforce; now this'd be in the wrong place if placed in the army. Can you give us a break down of what and how many they're acquiring? Also, any reliable sources for verification of the news? We, the citizenry, will not hold it against our country for being a LDC. We understand our position quite well. Yup, airforces buying rotary wing ground attack choppers is quite unheard of. Just let BA have those and get BAF to seriously try to achieve their primary mission goals without veering off to buy ships, subs or tanks, and everyone will be over the moon.

Do you know what's even funnier? While they fail miserably at their primary, and single most important, task, they're looking to start a squadron for aerial acrobatics! They want to 'ooo' and 'uhh' us by releasing colorful smoke contrails at Independence/Victory Day parades; while in reality we'll all be 'ooo'ing and 'uhh'ing and seeing blood red, in a real life conflict when either our Eastern/Western enemy decide to drop ordinance directly on our heads. BN probably do need some manned aircraft for deep strike missions over BoB, but I'd like both branches to draw up plans for unmanned armed drones to do most of the work they need done. So for BA close air support (CAS) and for BN anti-surface/ship (ASuW/AShW) roles.

WTF! I have clearly stated in my previous post that most of those, if not all, is achievable within 4-5 years. If proper planning is done and that plan is systematically and efficiently implemented, it's achievable. So let me jog your memory a little on what I said before: Are you for real? What's wrong you ask? Why not let BAF have ships, subs or tanks too while we're at it? If you can't see why giving more tasks to an incompetent force is a problem (who by the way can't even do the only damn thing they've been tasked with, which is to defend our airspace), well then, I can't really help you. Which is why adding just 4 EFT's for the BN (or 8 the following year instead of the additional 4 the first year), when getting 16 for BAF is doable. So, let's try this out; two options for purchasing the number we require, lets say within the next 4-5 years. Option 1 st year = 16 for BAF + 4 for BN nd year = 4 for BN rd year = 8 for BAF th year = 8 more for BAF Option 2 st year = 16 for BAF nd year = 8 for BN rd year = 8 for BAF th year = 8 more for BAF Maintenance work can be done at the same facility for all the aircraft to reduce cost. So whether the EFT's belong to BAF or BN, all will be repaired/MLU'd at the same location (which I hope will be setup in BD). So are you willingly ignoring BAF's MRCA 'blunder'? Incompetence (this will require a separate thread and very long posts to explain how our armed forces have ended up so incompetent, so excuse me if I don't go into it here) and corruption is not just limited or endemic to our government (yes, all the way to the top of the civilian leadership) or general society, but extends it's tendrils right into the armed forces too. And just how many combat aircraft has BAF bought in the past decade? It's a big fat '0'; and now you know why I have chosen 'Zero' as my handle! No one is saying that. Also this is why it's the AF choosing the aircraft, and only a small number (say an additional 8 air-frames) of the same model aircraft being specifically fitted for the BN to own and operate directly. Once again incompetence rears it's ugly head. If having pilots with very good flying skills in every branch of the armed forces is to be achieved, proper planning would look like this: same model for all basic, intermediate jet and advanced jet trainers. A large enough training facility to train potential pilots for all three branches, which would also include lots of simulators (so trainees can get a lot of hours in) and even facilities to train future drone pilots. After this pilots from BA/BAF/BN can have further training in their respective branches for specialized missions (if any). Commonality in platforms (spares and maintenance) and training facilities is how you save money, not to mention making sure all future pilots achieve very similar level of flying skill. Yeah sure, most of the incompetent ones! But the more successful and professionally competent ones usually don't saddle their AF with flying off of an aircraft carrier's deck or flying rotary wing attack helis on missions of anti-armor/ground troops in support of ground operations.

@Alim and @Dark Carnage thanks for the explanation. Here, here. Well at least they've stopped flying DC-10's; but now, ladies and gent, CAA is the old Biman!

Because overwhelming majority of our foreign trade and communications is through the sea. If BN needs six to eight dedicated MRCA type medium weight aircraft with deep strike capability over the BoB, to prevent any potential blockade from taking place, and keep our sea lanes open for trade, well I say let the BN have their own dedicated maritime strike arm. I have listed items for the next budget, and as large ticket items procurement budget is mostly separate from the officially disclosed (as it's based on suppliers credit/foreign loans), most of those are doable. As for the items you think would require 10 to 15 years, well I would like those to be on a much more condensed timetable. 2 to 4 years, maybe 5 tops. It's doable, if we go on a war footing to arm ourselves and keeping an eye on Arakan. Arakan needs to be resolved ASAP and in our favor, which means it either needs to be completely annexed or under our indirect control and the Bummers sent packing across the Arakan Yoma and Chin Hills. We cannot have an Arakan Damocles sword hanging over our head every time the uncivilized idiots have an anti-Muslim, anti-Bangalee itch in their rear end. This has been going on for almost seventy years now, and every single time it has happened has had negative effects on our security, as it destabilizes our frontiers next to Arakan, and on our national and economic development too. And the biggest problem of us not responding to the Arakan problem in a more forceful manner? The other uncivilized idiots the West of us thinks now they too can also carry out another ethno-religious genocide and drive out their unwanted population towards our border, albeit, with a little more paperwork (a.k.a CAA/NRC). BAF shouldn't operate any attack helis, period. All attack helis should be given to BA, as these types are mostly for anti-armor and ground troop support. BAF can have fixed wing aircraft, including ground attack and transport types.

I was confused about the Sylhet-London route. Thanks for clarifying that for me. As for the NY route, do you happen to know if the certification process is underway, and if not, when Biman might start that?

Thank you for the info. So I take it that Biman still has no plans to resume NY or London routes?

Equipment! Equipment! Even more Equipment! Starting with the obvious, at least one squadron of MRCA for BAF, including all related weapons and maintenance facilities for the jets. Also in country training facilities for the pilots. Plan for induction of aerial refeulers and AWACS and a solid timetable. If we can get 32+ used, but upgraded, EF Typhoon from Germany, UK or Italian current stocks as they retire, we would be practically set for twin engine MRCA. Heck, if we can get 40 EFT's, we could give 32 to BAF and the rest, upgraded to handle attacking surface ships, to BN for their maritime MRCA requirement. Hopefully BN's locally built frigate program finally lifts off. Some sort of plan to induct at least two, if not four more, modern subs. Hopefully all the subs and the various ships training, maintenance and repair facilities will be built in country too. I don't know if we currently have the facilities to be able to overhaul or repair our Mings in country. We need larger and longer range/endurance replenishment ships; 15K to 25K tons should be good for now. As for the BA, they should get ToT and start building T-300 systems, also spares and ammo, locally at BoF under license; or just go for the Chinese WS-2B's with ToT. T-300 are license built copies of the Chinese WS-2 GMLRS systems anyway. They should also hurry up with the selection of the 300+ KM GMLRS system. As for all forces or the country as a whole, a solid plan in place to induct medium/long range SAM systems, within a short time frame, say 6-12 months. Maybe plan to start developing or just get ToT for SRBM/MRBM with up to 1,500-2,500 KM range and very good CEP. We also need cruise missiles of at least 500 KM range, but optimally at least 1,500 KM range. In case someone wonders why the 1500, 2000 or 2500 KM range? We would need the BM's and CM's to cover most of our Western and Eastern enemies, so that they have virtually no safe space on their territory to operate from and against us. Finally, we should get into the proper mindset that neither of our neighbors are our friends, not a single one. We are quite unfortunate that the only two countries that we have a physical border with, both are threats to us. So keeping this little reality in mind, all branches of the armed forces should strive to achieve as much long range/deep strike capability as possible.

Any plan on restarting operating on routes that Biman stopped a while back?

Hello Friends! So is this forum related to old BD Military/BMF? If so, I hope the forum hosts and admins will keep this one around for a long time.